The New Dreaming Podcast
The New Dreaming is more than just a podcast - it’s a truth-telling movement. A space for real, meaningful conversations that empower, challenge and inspire. Through the voices of those who have broken barriers, found their purpose and reclaimed their stories, - we uncover the truths that shape who we are.
For those ready to listen, learn and be part of something bigger - each episode is a step towards truth, healing and collective empowerment.
The New Dreaming Podcast
The Journey Home: Identity, Music and South Sea Islander Heritage
When Robbie Mann sings his song "Home," something remarkable happens. Though he might be standing in Brisbane's Queen Street Mall, in his mind he's transported to the red dirt roads of Joskeleigh, the South Sea Islander community where his family has lived for generations. It's this powerful connection between place, identity and artistic expression that forms the beating heart of our conversation.
A Durumbal man with deep ties to Vanuatu and New Caledonia, Robbie takes us on an intimate journey through his childhood, his musical roots singing in church with his siblings and his ongoing mission to preserve Australian South Sea Islander history and culture. With remarkable vulnerability, he performs "Home" - a hauntingly beautiful tribute to his heritage that encapsulates the emotional complexity of belonging to multiple worlds.
Robbie's story illuminates a little-known chapter of Australian history: the period between 1863 and 1904 when Pacific Islanders were brought (often through trickery) to work Queensland's cane fields. This legacy shapes his sense of purpose today as he works to bridge cultural gaps and document stories for future generations. "In a hundred years' time, we are going to be the ancestors our descendants are talking about," he reflects with profound clarity.
The conversation weaves through Robbie's experiences balancing artistic passion with family responsibilities, his work on the "Say Our Name" exhibition at Queensland Museum, and the spiritual dimensions of cultural reconnection. For anyone grappling with questions of identity or seeking to understand Australia's multicultural tapestry more deeply, Robbie's wisdom offers both guidance and inspiration.
Listen in as we explore the powerful intersection of music, heritage and belonging through the eyes of an artist committed to keeping cultural flames burning bright. What parts of your own heritage are waiting to be reclaimed?
Robbie, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Brother, we go back. I've been really excited to yarn to you, so let's start with name mob and what you're up to.
Speaker 2:Sure, robbie Mann, durumble Mann, from Rocky in South Zealander, from Vanuatu, new Caledonia. What I'm up to? I'm a husband, father of two boys, work full time and, when I get the chance, perform as well. So singer, musician and sometimes songwriter you are very, very modest.
Speaker 1:You're an incredible. That's that's how we met. Yeah, through mob, through the arts. Let's visit those early 10 to 15 years childhood, a bit of schooling, identity.
Speaker 2:Let's start there yeah, so I was born in Rockhampton. At that time when I was born, my family were living in a small railway town called Ogmore, which is about an hour and 45 north of Rockhampton. So our early childhood was we had a bit of moving around. So after that moved up to I think I was less than two when we moved to Carmilla, which is just south of Serena, than two when we moved to Carmilla, which is just south of Serena. And then after that our family moved down to Griffith, new South Wales, in the later 80s, and then we eventually moved across to Bourke and we were in Bourke till about 93, moved across to Wilcannia and we were there for about a year, just under a year, and then we eventually moved back home to Rocky. And so through those years we'll go to school and then eventually once we like through Griffith and Bourke.
Speaker 2:And then when we moved across to Wilcannia my parents put us, started homeschooling us. So mum was our teacher and then when we returned back to Rocky we continued homeschooling for a little while and then we eventually went. She returned to work after I don't know, maybe 20 years or so after raising all the children and then she put us into mum and dad put us into a school, and so I finished out my years at school. I got a grade 10 education. That was as far as my education went and could take me, I'm happy with that to where I am today.
Speaker 1:And grade 10 was yeah it's tricky when you're that age because grade 10 you sometimes you've learned what you've needed to at grade 10. And then there's role models, there's people in the community, there's there's work you can go straight into. So, yeah, now we met in brissy. You know let's go from sort of year 10, transition to Brisbane. Young adulthood, yes, identity, yeah. And then you know, obviously us meeting. That doesn't need to be said Like it's an important thing, us meeting. But you know, let's just take us through those years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So yeah Was working up in Rocky for like a number of years and then decided to I relocate. I decided to locate to Brisbane in 2006. So I think it was around. I reckon it was about 2008, 2009 when I first met you here in Brisbane.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of arts things and a lot of arts around a lot of music, a lot of cultural events around. Now I tell everyone that I know you know singer, writer. When did you first fall in love with music, singing, and where did you start to embrace it and start performing?
Speaker 2:Well, we were brought up in the church. So, you know, we were brought up in the church, so we were singing every weekend and with our family, the Mann family, we were always known to be guitarists and singers and so it's a common trait in our family. So that just came natural. So that just came natural. So five of my siblings, we were all guitarists, singers, bass players, drummers, so we were basically the church band. And then the sister above me, she was sort of like, I guess, the main female singer of the family.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so just growing up, you know, learning to sing together, harmonising, you know, that was where I got a love for background vocals. I love background vocals. I don't, you know, I will, you know, I'll step up to be a lead vocals, but I love to be a BV because I find it the challenge that I like, and it's that intricate work vocally that I like to be challenged in to remember my parts. I don't like to read the music, my parts. I don't like to read the music Like as in sing with it in front of me. I need to remember it in my head. It needs to almost be like within my fibre of my being. I should be able to just sing it and it will just, it'll sit in there and it should just naturally come out. That's, I guess, my expectation of myself when I sing can you explain that to me?
Speaker 1:because I'm sitting here without that knowledge, without that you know experience. Yeah, can't sing to save myself, but background vocals you know. It's easy I'm not saying easy, easy for an artist to just learn a song, learn the lyrics, but when you're performing live, what's involved in that process? Give us an example of maybe a popular song and how you'd break that down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so definitely working with the artist of understanding what they want, firstly is understanding what they want from us and, if there are a number of backing vocals, understanding what each person is doing besides yourself. This is my expectation. It just might be different for everybody, but for me I I need to understand what you do, what that that person does, so I know where I should be fitting in and learn that and really ingrain it in. So it just becomes my second nature when I hear that song. It should just. It's like my brain gets into that realm of that song and I'm just all in. And then, like there's been moments when I haven't pitched it right and I'm just like, no, you know I do. Okay, get back on the horse and keep going. Basically, yeah, but also understanding the song.
Speaker 2:What was, why was the song written? What is the artist trying to convey with their song? Because I might, I might listen to a song and it's happened where I've listened to a song and I've got my interpretation of it and then I've actually gone to the artist. I said, oh, so what's what? What does this song actually mean for you? Why did you write it? And I've been on the other side of the earth, like I had it completely wrong, but although it made sense in my mind. But then when I heard the actual story of why that song was written, I was like oh wow.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's, there's a real art to background vocals. Yeah, this is ignorance. Right now, I just I'll watch a performance live.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll see the background vocalists, yeah, and I just think my harmonies, harmony, yeah, so I, um, I still sing in church. So it's like if, if I get told a song like the day before that and I've never sung it before, it's no pressure for me because I know, I just know now what, what I need to do. I have my own uh processes in my, my brain of how I need to go and learn this song, and but then I know when to stop learning, because then it's I'm just sort of over stimulated in my brain and then it takes too long for me to get out of that. So I I'll, I'll listen to a song a few times before I even go and read the lyrics, because I want to hear the music, I want to feel the beat, I want to hear the rhythm and then hear the lyrics, and then I'll break it down. I'll hear the song a few times in full, then I'll break it up. What's the first verse? What's the intro and the first verse? First verse and chorus.
Speaker 1:First verse, chorus second verse. So that's how I process in my brain around music I love that, and then with songwriting as well. Was that something that came naturally with the singing or is it something you explored, possibly through maybe an outlet? Was there a time in your young adult life where maybe music was a savior for you to to help you through possibly a tough time?
Speaker 2:yeah, it definitely. I've actually found songwriting a challenge. But then I've gone through a couple of moments where I've just had a bright idea and it's, and it's always that wee hours of the morning that a song has come to me and I've gotten up to go and write it down and I've gone to sleep, had a peaceful sleep, and then I wake up and then I can hear something running through my brain. I can hear a tune, I can hear a hum. I sort of feel like, oh, what? Yeah, okay, let's see where this like emotion has taken me on this with these lyrics that I've written down. So, and then you know, and there's some songs that I'm I've written but I won't sing in public. And then there's there's a couple that I will sing but then the rest I won't. I think then it's not the right time for me to sing them songs, for whatever reason. I just don't feel that. I think I wouldn't be able to do the song justice what I want to say in it. So I don't really want to then go and make, you know, my audience feel uncomfortable or feel a bit, oh, he's a big gammon, this fellow. So you know, whenever I sing, whether if I am doing a solo gig or if I am backgrounds, I'm 100% in and I'm committed to it.
Speaker 2:I've written one song and it's basically just dedicated to my South Zealand heritage and it's called Home. It's really simple, but it's the emotion of the song that just takes me on this journey, where I've sung it in the Queen Street Mall and I feel like I'm sitting down at our place up home called Joskalee. It's a small South Yonge community outside of Rocky and I feel like I'm sitting back. We call it the block. I feel like I'm sitting on the block in the middle of like it's. We don't have many trees on the block so it's quite open spaced and you know, my parents and uncles and aunties are still on that block.
Speaker 2:So I feel like I'm on the red road that we drive down, just sitting on it, singing to just nature. But I'm sitting in Queen street mall. Wow, yeah, it's a song that I will sing with my eyes closed, because for me I'm sort of what's the word I'm trans Transporting, ported Out of body. Yeah, that's a spiritual connection for me and it's about it's combining the two places, vanuatu and Juskali, of my family, my roots, culture, but also acknowledging culture that has been lost and the language that has been lost, and you know, to no fault of our own, to no fault of our own, but having the agency to own that, no, we're going to take it back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that It'd be great to at a later stage. Maybe we could record that song of you singing and we could put that into this episode to show everyone.
Speaker 2:That'd be great.
Speaker 4:A place of people and life, a place where custom is right. It's where I belong. A place where people are free, a place where you bore me, where I belong. Ooh Ooh Home. My home. Take me home, my home. Behold, my home where I belong. Chained to another place, a desert land, he's now my hope. My back aches, my heart aches For home. Can't go home Too far from home. Home, my home. Take me home, my home, where I belong. Ooh.
Speaker 4:I can't go home Too far from home. Home, my home. Take me home, my home, my home, sweet home, my home. Take me home, my home, where I belong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I don't know, I think it's I get so emotionally choked up about it, um, because I'm so, um, I think, just in love with where I come from and who I am. Um, and so it's, you know, I, I, I have a lot of people ask me, you know, why do you do so much work for Vanuatu, or your family in Vanuatu? Why do you travel so much? And I'm like, I honestly think it's actually part of my destiny, like it was part of my life's calling, of why I do what I do and why I'm so connected to my Vanuatu heritage. And when I'm there I'm home. I don't think about Australia. It's so weird. Like I'm from here, I'm got mob in Rocky, like I'm Durrambul, so it's like I have two homes. I'm at home when I'm home here in Rocky, josco, but I'm also home when I'm over there.
Speaker 2:And so it's the first time I went it was 2003. And it was a surreal experience of landing. And it was a surreal experience of landing and just the time I spent there was as if almost it was a familiar place. I saw people that looked like my family. I saw the food that had similarities to what some of our families were still able to cook here. You know that, um, the old people were handing down through our cooking. That's why my son loves to cook.
Speaker 2:We have that family tradition as well, um, and so I wanted to know more about why we looked the way we looked, why our family has different features, why we have different types of hair, why we have different skin textures. So it's been my I think it's just my life's journey to do as much work as I can and learn, to pass on, because I want to try and bridge the gap from what was taken from us and where we were taken from. So when my time on earth is done, I know that I will have done enough for the next generation of Karen, whether it's my kids or relatives or community members. I'm always conscious to know that we have young people in our community watching us and what we do, how we conduct ourselves and how we represent our communities. So I know that's a big responsibility on all of us. So we want to do it to the best of our ability, because they know when we're gammon and they will tell us and they will keep you humble.
Speaker 1:Now that first experience going home and I use that word home to some of the work you're doing now in the community here, can you share some of that work in the community, the South Sea Islander community, just to bring awareness to?
Speaker 2:that? Yeah, definitely so. Last year we celebrated the 30th anniversary of the Commonwealth recognition for Australian South Sea elders. So it was only in 1994 that we were formally recognised by the government as being our own distinct cultural group. So you know, I was fortunate enough to be a part of a small community group that were able to work with the Queensland Museum and do a number of workshops to help support Australian South Sea Islander Say Our Name exhibition, which opened in August last year and will close in July.
Speaker 2:So it's running for 11 months straight and it takes you on a journey of the past, the present, but also what you know, I guess, our future, the future generations. It highlights amazing artists, um it, um. It brings a lot of awareness about our community, um, but, it's but and also how we, um, I guess, identify, like you know, our family shirts like my mind's just going through the museum now, Like there is this nice section about of just shirts from within the communities that the community and different families, like their reunion shirts or different South Zealand shirts that have been made over the years, because they actually all mean something. They have a lot of meaning to our community. To the average person walking down the street they wouldn't know. It's just like you know wearing mob shirts and things like that. That's right, we will all take that.
Speaker 2:Second look to see that shirt and who owns that shirt, or where does that shirt come from? It's the same thing with the family reunion shirts of oh, you belong to that family, oh okay. Oh well, I'm related to them, so it's actually also a conversation starter and so a great feature in it is also digital storytelling, digital stories, which is I love digital stories, and you know we were yarning before about the importance of preserving history and but also, you know, in a hundred years time we are going to be the ancestors our descendants are going to be talking about. So what? Are we going to leave them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if we don't do any work now, they're not gonna have anything. Mm-hmm, we can't leave it up to you know, the next person that we hope that they're gonna. You know, do the, do the work. Maybe it's not their job, maybe it's your job. Obligation, it's our obligation. Mm-hmm and I was able to have my, my eldest son involved and he was 11 at the time. He's 12 now. I mean he has a passion for community, he loves people, he loves being involved, he's quite a social person. So he's always out and about, never wants to stay home, so I don't think there'll be any point of him renting a house when he's older. He'll never be home. So having him involved he got to really experience what it's like doing community work, because we said in those workshops that we were having, we're talking about ancient stuff in there as well, and history and seen artifacts and things like that. So him at a young age, being exposed to that, you know, I hope guides him and helps mould him in the future.
Speaker 1:Now take us back to when you first became a father, where you were emotionally, spiritually, and what has being a father taught you?
Speaker 2:I became a father at, I think I was age 29. It was a surreal experience when you see that baby and hold them in your arms and you're just like this is mine and my instant feeling, or the I don't know, or if it's the nature it was, you know how you have the lion and he is the one who is guarding the tribe. I am the lion, I am the protector, and that's different when you are an uncle, when you like babysit the nephews or nieces and things like that. When you have your own child, it's, it's a whole different feeling. Um, but it's something that I don't know. I just like, naturally, just closed in on. It was like you are mine and I'll do everything I can to protect you. What parenting has taught me was, um, it's, it's a different love that you have for your children. And I'm realizing and my wife said the other day you're a softie now, like I give in to them too quick. I give in to them too quick. I've always got to remind myself you've got to be an active father. You've got to be an active father. You've got to be an active father. Do not be complacent. Being a father is just the greatest joy above everything.
Speaker 2:My professional career is all about helping Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. I think that's what balances me. As being South Seander and Aboriginal, we walk in both worlds and I know a lot of people don't like that and that's a bit of a touchy subject in itself. South Yonder's been in Aboriginal spaces, but with us who have mixed heritage, basically I can't help who I am. Yes, love me or leave me, yeah, but I'm here to help community and I hope that my work, that I do, my, you know, as we were saying before, mob can see straight through you if you're gammon, yes, so I hope that my honesty and my passion people see that. Firstly, you've just got to be comfortable and proud of who you are and love where you come from.
Speaker 1:Let's touch on that. Let's maybe we don't want to talk about stuff too traumatic, but the blackbird in history in Australia, yeah, the South Sea Islanders that came over, yeah, let's bring a bit of awareness about that, sure, for those people out there that don't know what South Sea Islanders- are. If you want to take it away.
Speaker 2:Sure. So who are Australian South Sea Islanders? You will get just quite a broad description of, I guess, who we are, how we come to be here. You know 1863 was when it was basically legalised to bring in Melanesian and Polynesian Pacific Islanders to come and work on the cane fields. I guess what isn't really discussed is how they were brought on the cane fields. I guess what isn't really discussed is how they were brought. Trickery was some came willingly because they were told they were getting money, get a three-year contract and go back home. And that might be true to some family members, families. But then the conditions is not what they signed up for. No, the treatment, the treatment of the wider Australia community, that's not what they signed up for.
Speaker 2:I think our South Sea Islander history from 1863 to 1904 was when the white Australia policy came in. All right, we basically have enough for you, so you need to go back home. But during that time people had married, intermarried, with local Aboriginal groups from wherever people were living, stationed across Queensland. They've had children. Some people were taken back, others petitioned to stay, a lot of petitioned to stay, because they had, you know, then made home here. So there's quite a blend, quite a, not a blend quite a complex layer of identity within the South Zealand community.
Speaker 1:What are some of the hard lessons you've learned balancing being an artist.
Speaker 2:I think I don't know, because I always used to say to people and tell myself I never wanted to be famous like a famous singer, I never wanted to take it professionally, I never wanted to take it professionally. I think that type of talk in my brain nowadays. I think that sounds silly. I think that limited me in what I guess I, if I had fully committed into that, you know where it could have taken me. But then I was also conscious of becoming a father and bills need to be paid, food needs to be on the table, you have children, you have responsibilities. That's priority number one. So then I made the decision of I need to work full time and sort of do performing on the side. And when I made that decision, going down that road of working full time and sort of doing performing on the side, and when I made that decision, going down that road of working full-time and sort of doing performing on the side, being involved around arts and things like that, I think it's popped up at the right time and people have popped up in front of me at the right time being able to still hold on to the arts, the performing side, even if I go and see a play or I go and see a live band, that the arts, the performing side, you know, even if I go and see a play or I go and see a live band, I just feel that the flame sort of just lights back up again. I'm like, oh, you know, I just love it.
Speaker 2:Some of the hard decisions that I've made, I think although I wasn't too sure if they were the right decisions I made they are. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with where I've landed myself, but I think, you know, making the hard decision but being able to still have that door open, a close friend here in Brisbane will message and say I got a ticket to a show. Like I don't even I'm there, let's go, thank you. Thank you so much, because for me I just, you know, when I see mob there, it's just almost like a reunion. I'm there for the reunion and then for the show. You know, it's great to catch up with everyone.
Speaker 1:You're an artist.
Speaker 2:You're always going to be an artist. When we yarn this morning, it's great to catch up with everyone. You're an artist, yeah, you always have to be an artist, yeah.
Speaker 1:When we yarn this morning. You know I'm talking about your music, that's the first thing I talk about. And we have culture and we have all this stuff and we're going to keep doing that and telling stories. But you know, I love that you shared that, because the artist struggle is real. The responsibilities, the lack of support for artists yeah, um, just look at covet and then what happened there with the supporting of the arts. Yet for two years plus, people are surviving by consuming art watching TV, reading books, listening to music but they didn't deem it essential. Society needs us Absolutely. It's soul food. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm saying it raises that awareness. It brings history to life. It brings topics that people aren't bold enough to talk about. Yes, people will put it on stage and people will actually go and watch that. People want to watch that. People want to go and see it.
Speaker 1:They need it. They need it. They don't know if they do, but they need art. Yeah. How awesome was it and I know you'd be really proud as well when you saw Black Snow first came out and there was South Sea mob represented in film. Yeah, how good was it.
Speaker 2:That was amazing. I think I just smiled through the whole thing, Just so proud, so proud. So many of my family members, relatives, cousins, were in that series and just, oh, I couldn't stop. I couldn't stop promoting it within family work. My gym crew like just talked about it everywhere because I was just so proud of it.
Speaker 1:I was down here, of course, living down here, they're shooting back up close to home and I'm down here like fuck, I wish I was back up home because obviously I'm involved in film and stuff and I was just really excited and I don't get FOMO for anything, I stay in my lane but it was like nostalgia and home and representation and there was part of me that just yearned to be up there. Yeah, you know. So it was really cool, yeah, to do that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And now we're sort of bringing again awareness to South Sea Island and Mop yeah, to set your mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that definitely opened up a number of conversations with people within different circles of my life of, oh, I didn't know that you went through this or I didn't know that's how you got here. How long have you known me for? Like, we're social media friends.
Speaker 1:Like surely by now you can put one one together yeah yeah or click on one of my many things that I've put up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is bringing awareness to bringing awareness, promoting, highlighting the goods and the bad things that happened yeah, you said early on, very early on, your mission.
Speaker 1:This is, this is your mission, hmm, and I'm very excited for it yeah and I think the timing of us just reconnecting yeah, after we, we said what? Maybe a decade? I think about more. Yeah, and we were just artists at the time. Yeah, you know, just trying to make it. Yeah, making out and trying to make it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were trying to make out be deadly. Yeah, and you know doing our thing. Yeah, You're just young and now it's like there's so much purpose now. Yeah, and alignment, yeah, I think it's very important the work you're doing. Brother, we could keep yarning, but I want you to leave a message for young mob out there that might be trying to retrace their South Sea Islander, their Aboriginal, their Torres Strait Islander heritage. You know a message to them.
Speaker 2:I can see, you know, young people looking for their identity. They want to know who they are, where they come from. For my journey. I had a few ups and downs in that journey of there was moments when it wasn't the right time and things were happening and I'm talking about different type of spiritual things were happening. That's an indication that's not your right time, yes, and that's okay. Just pause, don't stop. Just pause because the door will open when it's your turn. But then I think, when it's time to move forward with that, be ready for a long walk on that journey, because it can be slow, it can be there's highs and there's lows.
Speaker 2:You might think you've come to a dead end on your research. Or talking to family members. Or talking to family members, my grandmother, one of them, was like oh, george, you know that's my middle name. She'd call me George. George, you know, don't worry about it, you live here now. But I said no, no, no, I need to know who I am and where I come from. I need to know about all my family. So I think, being brave enough to ask the old people and they might say no, so just accept that at that time. Yes, but that doesn't stop you from doing your own personal work. And you know, I think, knowing people from your own community and who are those knowledge keepers, and you know there's Maori organisations around Queensland, there's South Sealand organisations around Queensland that you know. I think sometimes it's just taking that first step to making contact with those agencies or those you know, organisations that you know you can go and just start, yeah, and I think another thing is cultural adoption is a big thing, like in the South Zealand community, of course.
Speaker 2:I've got it in my own family where relatives are like, oh, but we're not, we're not blood this. I'm like, oh, but this is what the elders have said. That person was brought up that family way. They only knew that family way. So let's not get that Western thinking into this space. This is our family, this is culture. That's actually custom. Yes, so we need to learn that ourselves, to understand the uniqueness and complexities of our own cultures and how it was brought across from the islands to here and how it continued for a number of generations. And so I think I find I hold that quite close and I find it a joy to hold that type of information.
Speaker 2:You know, there's stuff that I've heard that I can't talk about and I don't know if I'm allowed to. Maybe there's some point at. You know, when I'm older, that you know, I know that it's the right time to talk about it, but if it's not, then you know it's. There are things that people aren't allowed to talk about and that's okay. Yeah, yeah, I think it's been wise not to share it. That's right. If you've been told by an elder not to share it, don't share it. The spirit will guide. The spirit will guide, or a spirit will come and visit you.
Speaker 1:A spirit will let you know.
Speaker 2:Someone will let you know, a spirit will let you know, brother.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I appreciate your time, I appreciate you sharing?