The New Dreaming Podcast

Creating Space in a Crowded World: The James Saunders Story

• David Cook

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*This episode was filmed prior to the World Premiere of James' Film - As mentioned in this episode

What does it take to build a business that stays true to cultural values while thriving in today's fast-paced digital landscape? James Saunders, founder of Baraji Maweng, shares his remarkable journey from childhood in Logan as part of a family of nine children to becoming an entrepreneur, filmmaker, and advocate for authentic Indigenous representation.

https://bit.ly/James_Website

Growing up in a three-bedroom rental with eight siblings after his father returned to Victoria, James credits his mother with instilling both educational values and cultural connection. Despite financial hardships, she ensured her children maintained ties to their Gunditjmara and Wiradjuri heritage while embracing local Murray and Torres Strait Islander communities in Queensland. This foundation of cultural strength would later become central to James' business philosophy.

James speaks candidly about his winding path through early adulthood – from unemployment in regional Victoria to working at fitness clubs, health organizations, and eventually landing a media role that exposed him to national Indigenous politics. These experiences revealed a troubling pattern: his cultural knowledge and connections were generating wealth for others rather than building something sustainable for himself or his community.

This realization led to the creation of Baraji Maweng, a digital marketing business whose name combines the Wiradjuri words for "fly" and "together" – embodying James' vision of mutual success while maintaining cultural integrity. His approach focuses on empowering small Indigenous businesses with the skills they need to thrive in the digital space, with support from Indigenous Business Australia helping to forge crucial connections in the sector.

Beyond business, James is pursuing creative projects that reflect his commitment to authentic storytelling – from producing the documentary "Yoloo Country" about environmental justice in Western Australia to writing a book about his great-uncle, the first Indigenous person commissioned in the Australian Army. These endeavors demonstrate how entrepreneurship can create platforms for stories that might otherwise go untold.

Looking to support Indigenous businesses and authentic storytelling? Follow James' journey and discover how slowing down might be the most revolutionary act in a world that values constant hustle above all else.

David:

James, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me, brother. Let's start with your name, full name mob, and a little bit about your upbringing.

James:

Yeah, so my name is James Saunders. My mob are, on my father's side, the Gunditjmara people, southwest Victoria. We're from the Gilgah and Kilkerra clans of the Gunditjmara Nation along the southwest coast and my mother's family are Wurundjeri, the Wonga Wong people from around the Trangie Central New South Wales region.

David:

And you mentioned before. You grew up in Logan.

James:

Yeah, I had the privilege to grow up in South Brisbane, to grow up in Logan in the 90s and early 2000s. It was a very different place then but upon reflection I think I'm quite happy to grow up there with the influences I had in my life.

David:

Let's talk about the childhood. Let's talk about those first 15 years, maybe navigating school identity, all those things that pre-social media we had to navigate, pre-social media we had to navigate.

James:

Yeah, so I was actually born in the south coast of New South Wales in a place called Pambula. We moved to Queensland when I was four years old, so in 1989. My father and my mother at the time we had seven children in the family. My mother then had her eighth child, my younger brother, and then, when mum was pregnant with her ninth child, my father actually left my mother and moved back to Gunujumara, back to southwest Victoria.

James:

Mum chose to stay in Queensland because we kind of set up roots in south Brisbane. So she raised us kind of on her own. So a single parent, nine children in a three-bedroom, cheap rental, uh, you know, uh it was chaotic and interesting and hard, not gonna lie. It was tough, um, but she kind of forced us to maintain our education. So schooling was really important. She kind of didn't want us to be, you know, hopers, as she called it, of course, and so she forced us to really show up and be present at school. But we were quite happy to do that. I think we were quite social children. We were really big into sports. So sports was a really big part of our lives. So mum really got us involved in the sporting community around southeast Queensland. We did everything from swimming, athletics, soccer, netball, basketball, volleyball, rugby. We were a very big sporty family and that sport opened doors and that sport opened doors. But my mother, being an Aboriginal woman, really wanted us to maintain connection and culture. So we had a very big engagement with the local Murray community here in South East Queensland which was really good for us. The Murray community really were good to our family and embracing of us even though we weren't Murray. Torres Strait Islanders were very influential in our family as well. The Torres Strait Islander Church in Woodridge would deliver us food, were a very big part of checking in on us and making sure we were okay. So we felt a part of the community. But mum actually, despite how she felt towards my father, she still sent us down to Goondah Jamara as young children, particularly us young boys. We had a really strong connection with the family there and she wanted that. So we knew who we were and where we came from. So that was quite an interesting upbringing.

James:

And Southeast Queensland at the time this is the 90s it was going through massive changes. Land rights was a really big thing. Marlborough decision in 1993. Black media here was highly influential. Yeah, protests, that activist kind of world. Mum worked in Native Title, she worked for ATSIC, so we were very much a part of it all. Yeah, that's why when I say living in Logan, yeah, it was tough, you saw poverty, you saw desperation, but there was a lot of beauty in that as well. Wow.

David:

I'm just like blown away. Like for mum to raise nine kids just that alone, let alone trying to sort of let the children become part of the community and know about culture and where they're from. Now, growing up with so many siblings, was there moments where it was hard to sort of feel that you were given that time that you craved for? Was there things you attached yourself to very young, maybe music or sports? We did delve into sports, but was there any times that you started to notice? Maybe as a teenager you drew or gravitated towards something?

James:

yeah, so there wasn't a lot of space in the house. I have five sisters and three brothers and I crave solitude. I'm a bit of an introvert and I like my own company and I like peace. There wasn't a lot of peace in the house so I was lucky that I had a push bike and I would leave when I had time and I wasn't at school and I would go riding and I'd spend time alone in bushland all around the areas we lived inuncorn and Marsden and when we worked together as siblings.

James:

My siblings were very creative, very entertaining, and my eldest brother was particularly entertaining and he got a video camera. I think mum bought a video camera or got gifted a video camera and we started to make movies. So horror was a big genre in our family. We liked horror films. So particularly around the time of Halloween we'd make horror films in the garage with the local kids and music was a huge influence for us.

James:

Our family on my father's side were quite musically inclined. My cousin was in the band titters um and she's like a first cousin we all really love and adored her. So music was huge. You know, my sisters were obsessed with Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey the big US stars, so we would film, make video clips, you know, and express ourselves just very organically as a family. My sisters also did modeling because they were quite tall and attractive. So yeah, as a family we kind of were just there's a sporty element to us, but there's also this kind of creative element and I kind of juggled those through high school. I studied drama and film and television and I also played every sport I possibly could. So it's kind of always balancing those two aspects of myself and I think the family did that a lot as well.

David:

So you talked about sports, creativity, basically artists, music. I love that wiring. I can say that that's something I resonate with. Now let's talk about you've left school. Now what was the first thing you nurtured, and then we'll talk about how you got into sort of your business. Was it the sports or the creativity? Where did you go after school?

James:

Yeah. So I left high school. I finished year 12 in 2002. And at the time my mother had started a new relationship with somebody and my mom and her new partner decided they were going to move to Cairns because my stepfather's from up Mossburn Way. I didn't really have anywhere to go. I had been a boarding school. I went to boarding school for four years. I didn't have any skills, I hadn't worked while at boarding school. We weren't allowed to have employment outside of boarding school because we didn't focus on our studies.

James:

I didn't quite do well academically so I wasn't planning to go to university and at that time there wasn't a lot of opportunities outside of the traditional routes. So one of my sisters who was in Canberra at the Australian Institute of Sport, she paid for me to fly one way to Melbourne and my father picked me up in Melbourne and drove me four and a half hours west to Lake Condor Aboriginal Mission, where he grew up. And I lived on the mission with one of my older brothers out there who was a caretaker of the MISH and I kind of was unemployed, with no real direction or kind of idea of where I was going to go. What I was going to do. I knew I wanted to do things. I wanted to study performing arts. I wanted to study acting because I'd done drama for four years at school. But I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know anybody in Melbourne. I had no money and there wasn't the pathways that are around now for someone like me ways that are around now for someone like me. So I cattle drafted, I did random jobs where I could. I was on the unemployment benefit, on Centrelink, living regionally. So I hitchhiked around the Western districts.

James:

You know a lot of my family. You know we're not they're not wealthy. We don't come from a wealthy family. You know there's no generational wealth. Even though my grandfather and my uncles had tried to build generational wealth, there were systems in place to stop that Right. So I stayed down there for a bit. I played Aussie rules for the first time and played footy you know the Victorian footy which was an amazing experience and a great sport. That changed the way I viewed the world of rugby and you know fields and dimensions.

James:

But I left. I had to leave and I came back to Queensland and I got a traineeship and I was kind of going down a route that my sister had pointed me on. She said you know, get a traineeship. And I was kind of going down a route that my sister had pointed me on. She said you know, get a traineeship, get some qualification behind you, even if it's just a diploma, and you might have a career in the Queensland government. And at that time I needed, I needed independence. You know I needed to. I rented a studio in well, it's kind of near Paddington in Brisbane, on my own little studio I think I had, like you know, a tiny single bed and you know a couple of things on my clothes really that I bought from Victoria. And I did this traineeship, which was great, it gave me some soft skills. I did this traineeship, which was great, it gave me some soft skills.

James:

But I didn't see my life as a public servant. I wanted more and at the time health clubs and gyms were becoming popular in Southeast Queensland. So I was training at Fitness First in good old Toowong and I ended up getting a job at Toowong Fitness First First just working the front counter, and that was really great because it took my love for kind of physical activity and sports, but it kind of was infused with this kind of in a world that I didn't quite. I didn't quite engage with, you know I was. I was dealing with more wealthy white people, you know.

James:

Know, on a day-to-day basis there was this like tall black fella serving them, you know, on the counter and at this point I just kind of started to discover my sexuality and started to come to terms with that and who I was as a gay person. Yeah, that's kind of the early career kind of, you know, here in southeast Queensland. And then I moved to Sydney and Sydney was a kind of rude awakening, I think, because I thought, I knew, I thought being in Brisbane you know, people in Toowong were wealthy and people that lived to Hadda house and in Dupilly were wealthy Sydney kind of slapped me in the face where I saw wealth en masse and I I saw, uh, you know, it was kind of the gateway to the world. Really, you know, my whole life had been southeast Queensland, south Brisbane, right.

James:

So then I went to Sydney and it was like this kind of awakening and I kind of wanted to be a part of all of it, you know how world would have opened up yeah yeah and it did and it it came with opportunities, but it also came with hard lessons and I think a big city like sydney particularly for mob that don't grow up there it can be like that and there's some of those lessons can actually be quite difficult to navigate if you're not aware of what's going on. You know underneath it all, of course.

David:

A lot of history down there, history everywhere, but Sydney especially.

James:

Yeah, with mob Yep, a lot of history, a lot of activism, a lot of politics, local politics, and then also Sydney as a city. Yeah, it has its beauty and glamour and wealth and opportunity, but also has its dark side. You know, there's the partying, there's the exploitation, there's the fast-paced kind of dog-eat-dog mentality hate crimes yeah, all sorts of stuff yep, yep, very quickly I'll get to the question.

David:

I was a trainer at intrapilly fitness first. Used to train at to wong around that same time. Anyway, we can talk about that later, okay, wow yeah, there you go there you go. You've discovered who you are as a person, just your place. This new world has opened up. Now let's share insight into your business now and that step into okay, I'm gonna start this business and let's talk about your business and let everyone know what it is yeah, I will start by saying this is not the first business that I run.

James:

It's actually my second. The first business I started was back in 2013. So to get to that point, I'll tell you on about that point. To get to this point, I was working in Sydney. I was still working with Fitness first, but I'd gone to kind of part-time and I was working at the AIDS Council in New South Wales, which is kind of a big health organization that helps people who are LGBTQ and other you know, drug-injecting users as well. So it was like health programs, you know, for people in New South Wales and I worked in the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander unit and I had no idea I was studying part-time musical theatre and I was working at Fitness First and at ACON and at that time I didn't have any quals.

James:

I was trying to get this certificate this, you know, certificate for musical theatre, because I was still pursuing becoming an actor. It was still a thing that I wanted to do and this opportunity came up. Someone said there's a campaign that's been started, being run by this person called Andrew Twiggy Forest, and I had no idea at the time who that person was. I thought Twiggy Forest was, you know a Twiggy Forest in the bush. You know, it turns out he was a mining magnate. He was funding a huge project and they approached me for a low-level position as a media officer.

James:

I had no media skills. I'd used social media. This was the time social media was becoming a thing. So this is 2010,. Right, facebook had been around for a couple of years. Twitter was becoming big, instagram was being born. I had used them and I knew about them, but I had never managed an account before. But through ACON and through health promotion, I got to understand a little bit about the early days of kind of social media moderation and the space.

James:

I'm completely unaware of how, but I ended up getting the job and I ended up being kind of thrust into the middle of black politics in Australia nationally and I was thrown into. I flew around the country. You know we basically funded, we sponsored Gama Festival, darwin Festival, sydney Festival, all these big events we were campaigning at. So I got to go to those and I got to see all that. And then also the black politics side, which was extremely eye-opening, because my entire identity as a black fella had mainly been through the prism of being Gunajumara and Rajri, through my Saunders and Grant families, whereas this took my thinking completely wide and I also got really great skills and the campaign itself for people that don't know it was flawed and it was essentially deeply flawed from the very beginning.

James:

But I didn't know that and but I didn't know that, the team didn't know that, and the campaign was at a point where I didn't want to be involved anymore because there was dealings that I wasn't comfortable with within Western Australia. So, and my family, I spoke to my auntie, our matriarch, and she's like step away, son, it's bad spirit, you know. So I did, but I had a taste for it and I got a really good taste for agency land. So I got to work out how agencies work and I thought, okay, well, I want to continue to be an artist and creative, but I can't live off that. You know, this is 2012, like there was. No, there wasn't a lot of blackfellas getting commercials. There's nothing like it is now. There was no blackfellas in major roles outside of Aaron Pedersen and Deborah Malman Mad respect to both of them but there wasn't a lot of us in the industry and there wasn't a lot of us storytelling, producing, writing, directing, right. So you couldn't live off that. So I was like I I need to. I want to set up a business so I can work for myself and have some independence and freedom to do auditions and to be in that world.

James:

But I had no experience running a business. I had no idea what I was doing, but I just kind of I put some, I had some money and I invested it to set up the company. I ran it for three years and then I got to the point where I had not done any planning for a future within the business sector. I couldn't continue. I dissolved the business and went back to working full-time for projects, spent some time with the ABC in different places and then I ended up working with Luke Pearson with Indigenous X, and again it was one of those kind of pivotal moments in your life where an opportunity through work comes that changes your whole trajectory of your life in a really great way. Again it was a national. You know Indigenous X independent Indigenous media company telling amazing stories through the prism of elevating Black voices. But I was working underneath Luke as his chief operating officer and he was the CEO and I ultimately wasn't getting the say that I wanted over my output right.

James:

So fast forward to 2024, so a year ago I decided to start a company. I'd stepped away from IndigenousX for a couple of years. I worked on a couple of small projects here and there, but I didn't want to work for somebody else. There was a part of me throughout my entire career where I felt like I was generating wealth for somebody else who was not a bad person, but I was essentially giving away a lot of IP, a lot of cultural knowledge and a lot of yarns that were being capitalized on by somebody else. So I was like I want to have autonomy over that and I want to work with black businesses and blackfellas and help elevate the space in a way that I think is aligned with culturally, where I stand and how I feel.

James:

So Baraji Maweng was born. I did some research and I spoke to my mom and I said look, these are Wiradjuri words. You're my Wiradjuri ancestor. These words mean Baraji means to fly, mawang means together, and the whole idea of the business is if I work with you as a business so it's all digital marketing I want to see you succeed and myself succeed, and that we can all kind of fly together in a sense of being successful while still maintaining who we are as cultural people, um, which is, I think, a difficult thing to do in a in a business sense, because there's yeah, there's it can be difficult love it.

David:

Yeah, I love it. You've got so much experience right now and, yeah, some people just know that, hey, I've got to do something for me Now. When it first started any support there? How did you first hear about IBA?

James:

Yeah, I'd known of IBA for a long time. I had aspirations to own my own home. I'd been homeless a couple of times in my life and through IBA I was actually able to get a home loan, which is I bought a little one bedroom apartment in South Sydney, in little Alexandria. I knew that there was business support. I knew there was a business part of IBA, but I didn't quite go into that until I had set up my business. I was kind of like I set up the company. I saw IBA at a few events and I spoke to some of their staff who were really great with knowledge. They said these are the support mechanisms that are available to you.

James:

As an Indigenous business owner, I kind of formed a relationship with IBA and you know my business with with the digital marketing because of my experience and my skills. I have an offering where I can offer businesses, particularly small businesses, particularly small black businesses, the opportunity to learn digital marketing and I think that a lot of business owners have to become kind of marketers themselves. To run a business to be successful, You've got to know how digital marketing works right. So IBA have been able to match me with businesses that are working with them that need that kind of training and support, which is really great. It's really good. It's helped me network, it's helped me build relationships within the Indigenous business sector and IBA, I think nationally have been really great to deal with.

David:

Once you sort of got that support, was there any time you had to follow up? And how was that support after that when you reached out? Was there any sort of follow-ups?

James:

reached out? Was there any sort of follow-ups? Yeah, yeah, they've been great. So I've had opportunities to receive support. So they kind of ask you what you need as a business owner and then the person who kind of like a caseworker, who's working with you can also give you suggestions for support you might need. And I've got an accountant. I knew early on that I needed a good accountant. I think everybody should have a good accountant and but there's financial projections and forecasting that I I didn't do when I had my first business, so I need, I needed to do that. So I be a gave me really great advice on how to do that and they can potentially match me with a business an indigenous business that can, sorry, give me further skills so I can do better forecasting so I don't fall in the trap of not having, you know, in an income to stay afloat. It's great.

David:

It's that full business support not just getting started, it's sustainability, building infrastructure and anyone out there wanting to start a business maybe they've heard of IBA. Just some quick advice for young entrepreneur, aspiring business owner, to take that first step.

James:

Yeah, call IBA, get on the phone, call them, go through their business support team. I'm really big on the following, the follow-up. So, after that first conversation, ask for an email address, follow up with an email, really get to know that person and get to know who's supporting you, because if you build that relationship, it's only going to be beneficial for you in the future.

David:

The art of the follow up Yep. Now let's talk about some of the milestones for the business.

James:

Yeah, I think the first milestone was kind of getting the brand right, the look and feel. I think branding is really important for not only the visual identity, but I wanted to be really proud of when I hand someone a business card or when I refer someone to my website. I wanted to be really proud of that. So nailing the brand for me was the first milestone and I kind of spent a lot of time on that. I spent six months before I put anything out in the market because I wanted to make sure that I was happy with it and everything was self-funded. So I started this business completely self-funded.

James:

So I negotiated with a graphic designer I had a relationship with to allow me to pay off over time the work, and I wanted them to pay full rates. I was like I'm going to pay you what you're worth. I just can't pay it all up front. And they were like no, I trust you, we can do this. And I think my first website it's now in its second iteration, but the first one I paid for myself as well.

James:

There are support mechanisms out there to support people who don't have that. I'm quite lucky and privileged in that position to do that. But yeah, that was the first kind of big milestone. I'm still early days, you know, it's only just over a year old, but I've got clients I've worked with that I really I really like and I really like engaging with and, like you know, hearing about their work and their updates. Even though we may not be working together anymore in the financial sense I also I want to maintain that relationship with people, just because I do want to see people succeed and businesses do well, particularly small businesses you said something earlier about um.

David:

You know wanting to start your own business and you said it's important about how you feel when you got that first logo. Made the revisions boom. There it is exported branding materials. How did that make you feel?

James:

yeah, that, um, I felt quite proud, to be honest, quite proud to you know, starting a business as you're. Essentially, like any creative project as well, you're birthing something into reality, right, and it starts from your imagination or your mind. So when it kind of came out and I got a kind of brand identity document and I worked with the designer to really kind of nail that, I was really proud, yeah, I was pretty happy with that.

David:

What's the hardest part about business?

James:

I think, being self-motivated. I think, you know, I could sit here and say you know, every day is a great day and I'm motivated and I get up at 5 am and I go to the gym and I, you know, walk the dog and have my coffee and I have a full day. But it's not realistic, right? The human experience is varied and multifaceted and some days and some weeks you're not as productive and you're not as motivated and other things come up family, other projects, relationships, life. I think that's the hardest thing is re-motivating yourself and getting yourself back into. You know, I work from home, so I have a home office set up. It's like a corner of my apartment is my office, and I motivate myself not to sit in the lounge and watch Netflix all day because it's so easy to do that, right, yeah? Or sit on TikTok, just scrolling TikTok all day.

David:

It's really easy to do that.

James:

And.

David:

Netflix is research for, as you're an actor, of course, totally. It's all research. Accountant, if you're watching movie, tickets are a business expense Totally, totally. And how important is it for mob to take care of their emotional, spiritual and mental health?

James:

Oh, I think that's.

James:

I think it's really important. I think it's important for every person to do that, regardless of race. But I think, as mob, with the kind of historical things that have happened to us and the oppression and removal and disruption of cultural practices and disruption of connection to land, I think it's really important to prioritize that and to also not get caught in the trap of and this is very much speaking from a city, urban perspective not get caught in the trap of being in the city and spending your spare time, you know, engaging in activity that doesn't feed your soul, you know, and not getting back to country, not getting back to land and not engaging with your family outside of a project. You know, I think it's so, so easy, particularly in a city like sydney, you can just get so consumed by the bright lights and the events and the constant things that are happening. But you've got to sometimes stop and go home and just sit and just be with family and with land and just reset and kind of put things into perspective I think it's really important.

David:

I think you just stole my next question. I was going to say what does james do to remove himself? Have that time, feed the soul. So you mentioned family, country. You, you love your own space. Anything else that do, any practices that you can share with us?

James:

Yeah, look, I don't get home to Western Victoria as much as I should and I don't go to Central New South Wales as much as I should. Time and money is a factor. So where I am, I've been able to identify that the Blue Mountains is a place that I find makes me feel good. You know, at a very base level, it just makes me feel good. You know, if I spend time in the Blue Mountains, even if it's a day trip, or I go for a night, or I go camping or I go walking, I just feel better with the air up there. So I go to that place, uh, when I can, and if I can't get there, if I'm time poor, I'll go to kame base around botany bay and I'll spend time. You know, I may take my dog and just go sit on the rocks looking at the sun set over the water, just so I get out of my head and away from the screen love it.

David:

It's so simple sometimes, hey, but like you said, you just get caught in the rat race, in the bubble, in the deadlines and the trap that it can get you in. Now you've got your business going. You're an artist, always have been actor athlete. You're an artist, always have been actor athlete, very talented man. Now you're delving into sort of producing filmmaking. Do you want to share as much as you can about that process and sort of some things that you've got going?

James:

I've kind of back over 10 years ago now, I had a friend who was a film director in Sydney, who was a he was a Queensland fella, but he ended up in Sydney chasing the dream of, you know, bright lights and Hollywood signs. And he, we. One day we were drinking wine and yawning and he said if you, you could make a film clip for an artist, like a music video clip, who would you pick? And I said, oh, I'd love to do one for Jess Malboy, just like you know, just straight out to said love Jess, love her energy, think she's great. Literally two, three weeks later, no joke, he called me and said I just met Jess's makeup artist. She's going to get me a meeting with Sony to pitch to do a music video clip for Jess. Would you be keen to work on the project? And I was like, yes, totally would love that, of course. So he pitched, I helped him with the pitch. We did an amazing pitch. We ended up getting the job. We filmed a clip with Jess in Darwin with her family, and then around Darwin with Shake Her Up Great song, awesome experience. I got a producer's credit for that, which was great.

James:

That was quite a long time ago and I dabbled in projects here and there and then about three years ago in Sydney there's a place called the Judith Nielsen Institute for Journalism and Ideas. I got a scholarship through JNI as a kind of journalist in residence and I was kind of looking at content creation and the kind of growing kind of storytelling that's happening through short form and through social media apps and how, with the Blackfella lens, how Blackfellas can disrupt traditional media stereotypes and narratives. Through that process I met this amazing filmmaker called Yara. Yara at the time had just had a film gone on the festival circuit which was about surveillance. It was called Unseen Skies. It was an incredible film that I got to watch. It was a documentary feature about what's happening in the skies above us with satellites and surveillance on the ground. And Yara came to me and said look, I've got this project that I'm keen to do. And at the time the project was looking at legacy mines and the scarred landscapes and what happens when mines are rehabilitated or not. And at the time she had four subjects she was keen to focus on and one of those subjects was a black fella, was an indigenous person and she'd asked for me to be involved in some way. She's like I want you to be involved in the film. We've met through this scholarship but we've formed this kind of professional relationship.

James:

The film kind of started to progress and the story in development started to kind of take shape and she started to identify that this person, this Indigenous man, had a quite a compelling story. This man's name is Maitland Parker. Maitland is from the Pilbara in Western Australia. His country is the Karangini National Park.

James:

Maitland had been fighting to get the Wittenoom asbestos mine site cleaned up. It had been mined and then been left almost just like kind of close it up. They shut down the town in Wittenoom and they closed the mine and they made an exclusion zone. And that was that. And this is at the time when there was a native title and we didn't have any rights. Maitland had been fighting, so he'd been in the media fighting for it to be cleaned up and Yaro said to me look, I want to, I want to talk with Maitland. Are you going to help me Because I can't find this man?

James:

I made a phone call one phone call to somebody in Perth, a black fella. He called someone else and then linked me up with that person and I got by the end of the day. I had Maitland's number for Yara Blackfella Ways, blackfella, great point. Exactly, you know I'm end of the day. I had Maitland's number for Yara, blackfella Ways, blackfella, grapevine Exactly, you know I'm not from Western Australia, just for the caveat. I've done projects over there. You know little projects here and there, but I'm not part of that whole network and that whole country, you know. But yeah, yara was like I think I want you to come on the film, either as a producer or a co-producer in some capacity. While recognising that, I said to her you need WA mob involvement, even if it's Maitland and his family, because this is their yarn. So she was really great and I trusted Yara to do the story.

James:

I've been and I can say this quite honestly because I've spoken to Yara about this I've been critical of non-Indigenous people telling our stories, particularly when it comes to documentary. The history of documentary is shaped by the filmmaker documenting a subject or subjects, but there was always an editorial that sat far from the subject. They didn't have any editorial say over the outcome. Yara didn't want to do it this way and we had really honest conversations about that, which I really respected. She wanted Maitland to be central to the story and to the yarn and to be across all points. So Maitland worked on the film. So he's credited as a writer and as one of the producers Incredible and his involvement changed how this film could have been done. His voice was central and it is his yarn and it is his story and I think that that process is going to hopefully have a flow-on effect with documentary filmmaking not just in Australia but hopefully globally.

James:

When it comes to subjects, particularly when you have the subject being someone who is from a minority group or from a group that has been historically oppressed, I think it's really important to enable those voices to sit as high as they can within the. The hierarchical order of of a documentary agreed and yara has gone back and forth with the family, with maitland, showing him cuts, showing him things speaking through. Is this appropriate? Can we show this? You know there's it's very much and it is. It is a lot more labor. It's a big process to do that, but Yara's heritage Yara comes from a Lebanese background, grew up in Western Sydney and she worked at SBS and she worked with NITV. So she has an understanding, I think, given her ancestry. But I think outside of that's a good person and I trusted her to do the right thing by this yarn, and so my involvement was, yeah, kind of I felt, I felt like okay to be a part of the project that's so important.

David:

yeah, I've been asked why do you want to be a producer? And I said to ensure the authenticity of the voice from conception to delivery, Not just till you say rap, that's a rap. You're a director, you go home, you're a talent, but in that edit you can tell the story a different way. They can change the narrative, they can, so you produce it to ensure authenticity of that voice. So it's great to meet you and I want to talk a lot about film, but let's put it into a three to five years, the next three to five years. What does that look like for James?

James:

Wow, I think that I'd like to, in three to five years, have multiple businesses set up. In three to five years, have multiple businesses set up. I think that I've got a few ideas and projects in the back of my mind from a business perspective and I want to see Baraji Mowing find its space within the digital marketing landscape that changes quite rapidly, particularly with the introduction of AI and all of that kind of beastie stuff. I think, creatively and professionally. I want to continue. I still do auditions and I do commercials and I still like to flex that muscle and still like to do that stuff when I can, which is great. I did an audition just today actually, which was cool.

James:

I'm also writing a book that's quite personal and I'm a first time author. So, with the caveat that it's a big, big job and it's a personal story, it's my father's eldest brother's yarn and his biography. Captain Reginald Saunders and Captain Reg, just quickly was the first Indigenous person in Australia to be commissioned in the Australian Army, so he was officer commissioned rank before we had citizens as blackfellas, which was in itself, huge, but his whole life story is quite incredible. I won't give too much away because I want people to buy the book and read it. But I would love to see and I've spoken to his family, I've been in consultation for the book, I've spoken to his daughters. He has four daughters still alive. They're my first cousins. They're all in in their 70s, they're like great-grandmothers and I'm their first cousin, even though I'm not at that age, and I've spoken to them about this story and how I. I don't own the story. I have rights as the author over the book.

James:

But if they want to, if someone wanted to make the book into a film, I would love to be involved in some capacity. You know, if it was a producer, a co-producer or something, I would like to be involved to see that story told more broadly, more widely, because not everybody's going to read a book of 80 to 100,000 words, right, 14 chapters. They're not going to do that. But I think a film, a feature film and that's what I love about film it has the capacity to transform people. It can transform a person's thinking, it can transform and inspire people, thinking, it can transform and inspire people and I think that uncle reggie's story is so compelling that I think it would do a lot of that as a feature. So in three to five years time. I would love to see that come to life in some way. Um, yeah, that's kind of what I'm hoping for.

David:

That's amazing. Yeah, feature your first book, multiple businesses, the agency informing the film, advertising. It's basically working hand-in-hand with promotional efforts and pathway to audience. Now, what will be? What can you forecast as the biggest obstacle, physically or emotionally, that is going to try and stop you?

James:

Yeah, I think it's the black dog, I think it's your own mind, I think it's your own limitations and doubts you have that could get in the way. That's the only thing I can foresee getting in the way is my own uh, kind of mental and spiritual health not being great. You know, I think, because everything I have to date I turned 40 this year shout out to the 80s kids. It's a um, it's a big kind of milestone because you get to you, you care less, but you also become hyper aware of, uh, the second half of this experience, the human experience of life, and it's so easy to lose yourself in that and lose yourself in the madness and people may pass away. You could lose family, you could lose friends, you know. Your health issues start to become more, you become more aware of that kind of stuff and I think the only thing that can get in the way of these dreams, these aspirations, coming into reality is my own mind and my own inability to overcome the reality of my existence. Yeah, without sounding too, spiritually out there.

David:

80s baby, I completely resonate with it. Anyone else that doesn't get it. That's your issue. Okay, good, good, good. Can you share with us maybe something that has kind of crippled the mindset at one stage and experience and then how you overcame that?

James:

Yeah, yeah, um. The fear of um, the fear of rejection and the fear of failure, I think is I've struggled with right and I think a lot of people struggle with this like this. Right, there's so many amazing, creative, talented people who are sitting in a nine to five job, not doing what they want or passionate about, because of fear of failure. Right, fear of falling flat in your face, and I've had that multiple times and my life could have taken a very different path had I put that kind of creative part of myself in the oh you know what, like you should just stop trying. Stop. You know you're trying too hard, mate. Like just kind of creative part of myself in the oh you know what, like you should just stop trying. Stop, you know you're trying too hard, mate. Like just kind of just sit back down. You know, which is a common mindset and mentality here in Australia? I find it's, you know, that tall poppy syndrome, and we can actually do it to ourselves.

James:

And to help overcome that and to help overcome that, I worked with someone you would probably call a life coach, someone who I respect, and this person, she enabled me to find ways to express myself that weren't for anybody else but myself. So I meditate, I journal when I can. It's not every day, I mean, I'd love to meditate and journal every day, but sometimes I don't feel like it right. But within that process I was able to kind of overcome a lot of the fear of failure and rejection because I was able to understand that the limitations that I place on myself are a byproduct of experiences I had growing up where I was rejected, where I did fall on my face, where I did go broke, where I did become homeless, you know. And the great thing about all of those things was I was able to pick myself up and try again. So failure, through this process of journaling, I understood that failure was not who I am. It was an experience that I may experience again, but I have the opportunities and I have the will to overcome that.

David:

Sounds like you've done a lot of work, inner work and then you realize you think by the time you're 30, you're going to have everything sorted. 35, yeah, 40, it's like, hmm, I actually know nothing and I'm going to be a student for life. What would James right now, at 40, awesome age, by the way, just letting you know say to 20-year-old James? You get one piece of advice you can't say buy Bitcoin one piece of concise advice that you can share with him in under 30 seconds. Whoa, that's a lot. That is a lot. That's really hard, that's very hard. When I came out, I was like whoa, that was too much, david.

James:

I mean, there's a lot that 20-something-year-old James needed to hear, so it's hard to fit it all in 30 seconds. I think the big thing that I would probably want to tell myself is slow down Like I rushed through my 20s. I rushed through my 20s worrying, stressing, striving, striving, when I think if I had slowed down, I would have maybe achieved more but had lived with less anxiety and less stress, if I just slowed down and cared less. You know, I talked about entering my forties and how much I just I stopped, I've stopped caring, I've stopped. It's not that I don't care, it's just that the things that I thought were important don't matter and I'm able to slow down and appreciate and just to actually see the experience that I'm having.

David:

That is awesome advice.

James:

Yeah.

David:

Because you know how you consume content and you hear different entrepreneurs and business owners, athletes, talk about advice. I can't recall someone just saying as simple as slow down. They've said de-stress and walk and exercise and mindfulness and all that, but to say it in that manner, slow down is really. It's resonated with me. I guess that's what I'm trying to say Now. What I want you to do is just share a little bit about. We talked about three to five years, but the next couple of months, maybe something that you've got happening later this year, you're going to be landing this amazing audition that you just did today as well. We'll be acting in something as well I'm just throwing that out there into the energy.

James:

Yeah what have you?

David:

got coming up. Let people know where they can find you.

James:

I'm going to finish the manuscript for the book. It's the first thing I need to get done. I've got to do one more interview with my family, with my cousins, to complete that process and then go through the back and forth with the publisher, the film, which is called Yoloo Country, that comes out in June and that's going to do the film festival circuit and then we'll have, hopefully, its theatrical release next year. But I'm active on limited social media. I advise people to use all social media accounts, or as many as they can, to tell their narrative. I am a little bit limited. I'm a little bit more private. I have a LinkedIn account.

James:

that is you know, I'm active on there every few weeks. My Facebook is pretty much private now. It's just family and friends and it's just a way for me to keep tabs on who's fighting with who and who's not talking with who.

David:

That's it For that army to get back to you. Yes, yes, they won't answer the call, but they'll check their Facebook. They'll check Facebook.

James:

They'll always check Facebook, but my Instagram is private. I don't post on there regularly. Private, uh, I don't post on there regularly. Um, I had I do have ambition to have some uh kind of space this year, some kind of activity, um to talk about things like um wellness, particularly from a men's what people identify as men or men kind of a men's or people identify as men or men kind of health and well-being kind of page. I've been working on a website in the background and love that, just working on what that's going to look like from a content perspective, whether I I go down the road of making content for youtube and tiktok, which is a great way, obviously, obviously, to build audiences, but that comes with again, overcoming the failure doubt aspects. Yeah, that's kind of the year ahead, I think. Oh, that's great.

David:

And where can people catch your film? I think you said June.

James:

Yeah, so June. It should be premiering in June. We can't say where, but yeah, that YOLO country has a website and social media pages and they're active Fantastic, because I'm managing them. So check those out.

James:

It's a film that's going to be very important to the nation's kind of psyche and kind of conversations yeah I love it and we'll make sure that we've got all those links in the description as well so people can check it out. They can find your website, they can find the film's website. Um, you know anything upcoming like you mentioned in that realm of supporting people through? You know creating content and tick tock brother. Thank you for your time, thank you for your space. I appreciate yarning and I'm sure we'll chat a lot more norris, thank you for having me.

James:

I really appreciate the time absolutely.